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4 reasons why women must take charge of their financial planning

4 reasons why women must take charge of their financial planning


As a woman, you may be in charge of your present. But are you in control of your future?

Taking control of your financial future is important. Take out the necessary time for it.


It is important not to confuse your current financial independence with financial freedom. By being financially independent you are able to take care of your personal expenses at present. When you are financially free you are able to maintain your desired lifestyle throughout your life-time, including your retirement. This is not going to happen automatically just because you earn an income. It requires thought and planning and is more challenging for women than it is for men. Pl read my latest article published on Moneycontrol.com.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/personal-finance/viewpoint-4-reasons-why-women-must-take-charge-of-their-financial-planning-4048041.html


Image credit: Moneycontrol.com

But I am scared of Equity!

But I am scared of Equity!


During most client financial planning conversations, the financial planning process generates a sort of awakening. For some, its like “blinkers off”, while for some others, it’s like “a huge load off my shoulders”. For some, it’s a scientific validation of their understanding of their finances, while for others, some aspects come as a rude shock. But usually for everybody, the discussions lead to a clear shared understanding of their current financial position, a discovery of what their financial future priorities are and what they need to do going forward to achieve them.


As a part of our conversations, we also transparently share the short-term volatilities that asset classes like equities have, which could lead to a capital loss of even 20-30%, even if temporary. Over the course of our discussions, most customers end up building comfort with various available asset classes, as well as the differences between them. With our help, they also get to know what (and how) they will need to invest in each asset class to achieve which goal, and get comfortable with the risk-return trade-offs of each asset class.

Rarely though, we come across some customers who are quite resistant to the idea of investing a part of their savings into equity, irrespective of how critical it is to achieve their financial goals. When we try to understand more, the following deeper truths emerge

  • I do not want to take any risk, I am very conservative
  • I just don’t understand Equity
  • I have no idea of how the stock market works
  • I am worried that I will lose all my money
  • I prefer to invest in something I understand – like Real Estate or Gold


To many of you, these reasons may sound familiar. So, how can these worries be addressed?


For us, these worries are opportunities for us to understand customers better so that we are able to adapt their investments to their risk appetites in the best possible way, while enabling them to meet their goals. At the same time, it is also an opportunity for customers to understand a bit more about various asset classes, especially the ones they do not know much about, confront their beliefs and overcome their fears.


Irrespective of your mental approach towards decisions, the below rationales should help you to understand and update your beliefs about the risks attached with equity.

  • History shows that while in the short-term, investments in equities are very volatile, in the long-term, a well-selected and adequately-diversified portfolio of equity mutual funds is very safe from a capital loss perspective. The below table illustrates this
  • A significant part of our own portfolio is in equities and we are usually invested in most recommendations to our customers. Our own experiences in investing in equities has been very positive. This also helps build confidence in our customers that we have skin in the game and that our interests are aligned.
  • Many customers who come to us have a significant % of their Net Worth in Real Estate, which hasn’t had a great run in the last decade or so. That being the case, the risk of remaining further invested in Real Estate is higher, and investing in equities not only helps them meet their goals more safely, it also reduces risk in their portfolio through diversification.


As a people, we are used to taking risks in many aspects of our life. We take those risks by managing them better, by constantly building and updating our understanding of the risks and taking appropriate corrective actions, when needed. Our approach to risks in investing needs to be similar.


Equities are an important asset class, arguably the most important from a wealth creation perspective, and much needed for all of us to meet our long-term financial goals. Avoiding Equities due to your fears of them is something that can severely impact your financial security in the future. The better thing to do would be to understand your reasons for fearing equities and seek the correct information in order to overcome them.


Finwise is a personal finance solutions firm that helps individuals and families plan for their financial goals, follow their passions and achieve financial independence. For consultations, please reach us at getfinwise@finwise.in or +91 9870702277/9820818007.

Image by Mediamodifier from Pixabay

Managing our fears while investing our money

Managing our fears while investing our money


“Planning is bringing the future into the present so that you can do something about it now.” – Alan Lakein


While we have always lived in uncertain times (is there any other kind?), none of us actually welcome uncertainty, especially in our personal lives. As human beings, we avoid uncertainty – just evidence the popularity of daily horoscopes or the rush for numerologists and astrologers.


While we are fearful of uncertainty, we are generally good at managing it. One of the ways one can manage uncertainty is by preparing for it. One way to prepare well for uncertainty is to plan for the probable outcomes.


In many facets of our life, we manage uncertainty very well. A person catching a regular train to work keeps a buffer of a couple of minutes to reach the station to account for a sudden traffic jam. He will also have an alternate plan to reach work in time, just in case the train is missed (eg. take a cab). While this may seem a very basic example, this principle is employed everywhere by us.


Also, when we plan for uncertainty, we plan suitably keeping in mind the “risk”. We make sure that we don’t take more than an acceptable amount of risk for a given event, depending on the severity of the uncertainty and the opportunity cost of failure. We use a “margin of safety” to manage uncertainty and the higher the uncertainty or the higher the stakes (probable losses), higher is the margin of safety. The whole objective is to try and make sure that the plan doesn’t fail, except in extremely unforeseen circumstances.


Eg. in the above case, in order to catch a local train, one would be comfortable reaching the station about a few minutes before the departure time. But in case of an airplane journey, one generally reaches the airport nearly 1.5-2 hours before the journey. This is despite knowing that the check-in counter closes only 45 minutes prior to departure. In this case, we keep a higher buffer because the “cost” of a missed flight here is much higher than the cost of the missed local train.



So how is this relevant to Investing? When we invest our hard-earned money, we wish to reduce uncertainty. Hence, we seek surety in returns. We also fear the risk of capital loss, even if it temporary. So, how does one handle these fears? Let us attempt to answer this in light of what we learnt from the above quoted examples.


One lesson is to choose the appropriate asset class depending on the time-horizon of the investment. When you do that well, time is the “buffer” that ensures that “risk” (eg. market volatility) gets evened out and generates the necessary return over the long term. Going back to our example – when we have enough time on our hand to reach the airport in time, does an unforeseen traffic jam (or a punctured tire) worry us? The answer is no, because we know that this is temporary, and we have enough time to reach our destination comfortably.


Another lesson is to have a “margin of safety”. As a retail investor, not following the herd to jump in when markets are booming would ensure that “margin of safety” is not compromised. Making sure that your asset selection is in the right products and in the hands of accomplished managers also helps manage this risk fairly successfully. After all, trying to catch a flight with 30 minutes left (before counter closes) versus 5 minutes, would make your journey so much more worry-free in terms of experience, even with the unplanned traffic jams and punctured tires, wouldn’t it?


Having fears while investing your money is natural. They cannot be wished away. But they can be managed and overcome by implementing these lessons. Having a plan for your financial goals, which identifies the right asset classes and investments to meet them, can make your investing journey a far more peaceful one, despite volatilities that will be faced along the way. And having a good financial planner to hold your hand through the planning journey, while keeping in mind your needs and risk appetites, will make sure that you will enjoy your present, secure in the knowledge that your future is also in safe hands.


Finwise is a personal finance solutions firm that helps individuals and families plan for their financial goals, follow their passions and achieve financial independence. For consultations, please reach us at getfinwise@finwise.in or +91 9870702277/9820818007.


Image credit: Gino Crescoli, Pixabay.com

Your EPF can be your Secret Santa, provided you don’t touch it until the Christmas of your life!

Your EPF can be your Secret Santa, provided you don’t touch it until the Christmas of your life!

For most of us, our mid-40s seem to be a very hectic life-stage. We frequently imagine our retirement being made up of long holidays with no emails to check and phones to answer, and we hope to start a peaceful retired life someday soon. Unfortunately, these day-dreams end as soon as they start, rudely interrupted by kids, work or something else “urgent”.

Wanting to retire in peace with no liabilities and financial stress is something that everyone aspires for, and rightfully so. After a life-time of hard work, this is something we are entitled to, aren’t we? That said, this peace of mind is not something that comes automatically, and needs to be worked towards, with discipline.

One investment which is the biggest contributor to a salaried person’s peaceful retirement is his or her EPF (Employees Provident Fund). It is therefore extremely important to give it a little attention and time.

When we make a financial plan, a few clients who don’t attach much importance to retirals are pleasantly surprised when they see the amount accumulated.  If EPF is left untouched and promptly transferred every time one shifts jobs, it can truly bring a lot of relief when most needed.

Sadly, we see many clients in their mid-forties who have a low accrual in EPF.  Ironically, the reason is they are knowledgeable and relatively personal finance savvy! They recognise that there is much to savings beyond Sec 80C and with the kind of time-frame available for retirement, they would be better off investing the amount elsewhere and making far higher returns than that on offer with EPF.

While all of this is true, what most of them fail to recognise is once you withdraw the amount it is needs to be earmarked for retirement with discipline.  When you have investments, which are visible and are tracked on a regular basis, you will be surprised at the numerous expenses which suddenly crop up and seem “urgent and unavoidable”. The result is – the EPF amount that is withdrawn and carefully invested while changing jobs, is dipped into to meet this “now important” short-term expense, leaving a big void in your retirement pot.

This might sound unreal, but I am yet to meet a client who has withdrawn the EPF and re-invested it with retirement in mind, but has let it remain there till retirement. Do give this aspect a serious thought before you choose to withdraw it for “better investment opportunities”.

We also come across people who have shifted multiple jobs but have not shifted their EPF from previous employer to the current one. The thought process is, it is earning interest, and it is safe, there is no hurry to transfer, lets do it when time permits. Unfortunately, it becomes another item on the to-do-later list and ends up remaining there.

The process of transferring EPF is now online and simple and consumes very little time. In the minds of most people though, this is a complicated procedure requiring multiple visits, paper work and constant follow up. Once you realise this, it may motivate you to action this immediately.

The more pressing reason for you to do so is that if you stop making fresh contributions to your EPF the interest paid on the amount accumulated is taxable. This is a big downer and should be incentive enough to transfer it on time.

Remember you could be working for the same employer but may have had multiple internal transfers within group companies, these need to be treated as job changes and you need to ensure that the EPF has been transferred. I have seen people quit after 15 years with one group and then realise that EPF accumulation does not go back to their date of joining the group, due to multiple intra-group transfers.  Getting these transfers done when you are not part of the system and do not have access to the right people can be frustrating and time consuming.

It is very easy to download an EPF passbook online, I have given the link here on how to – https://www.cleartax.in/s/pf-balance-check. I strongly suggest that you do this at least once a year and ensure that all transfers are done. You will reap rich dividends for the time and effort put in tracking and ensuring your retirals are not idling away. If any of you have had interesting experiences with EPF do share them for the benefit of everyone in the comments below.



Finwise is a personal finance solutions firm that helps individuals and families plan for their financial goals, follow their passions and achieve financial independence. For consultations, please reach us at getfinwise@finwise.in or +91 9870702277/9820818007.

You spend across the globe, do you also invest internationally?

You spend across the globe, do you also invest internationally?

One of the key pillars of building a stable yet strong investment portfolio for your long-term goals is Diversification. The objective of diversification is simply to “not put all your eggs in one basket”. Ie. apportion your money across different investments, in order to reduce risk. Conventionally, diversification for retail investors has meant the following –

  1. Invest across asset classes – eg. Equity, Debt, Gold, Commodities, Real Estate
  2. Invest across categories – eg. within Equity – large/mid/small cap, within debt – liquid, duration, credit risk


One key area available for diversification, yet, not taken advantage of by the retail investor is – Geography. Think about it – while we all agree that as a country India has a great long-term future and is one of the fastest growing markets in the world, from a risk perspective, having all your investments in one country – isn’t it another way of “having all your eggs in one basket”? While during happier times your pure Indian portfolio might grow healthily, what about the volatility risks during uncertain times (eg. global recessions, oil prices peaking – haven’t we seen these before?) when global money flows out of emerging markets such as India?

One key factor that large and HNI investors use successfully to not only de-risk their portfolios but also take advantage of global growth cycles is investing internationally. This has many advantages

  • Companies such as Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Netflix – are driving huge behavior and consumption changes across consumers. And none of these are Indian. Investing internationally means having a finger in this pie.
  • Most clients we meet today have a significant portion of their goals planned abroad. Eg. Children’s foreign education, International holidays every few years both before and after retirement, destination weddings abroad. Investing internationally helps you plan for these goals better.
  • While India is a higher-growth market, it is also a higher inflation country, and hence its currency depreciates against most developed country currencies eg. Dollar, Euro, GBP. Investing abroad allows you to take advantage of the rupee depreciating and adds to the gains.


Remember though, investing internationally also has its share of “new” risks that one needs to plan for. Eg. knowledge of global cycles, international geo-politics and its impact as well as currency risks. That said, there are significant investment opportunities available today that helps us invest internationally. More importantly, not investing internationally may be a bigger risk over the long term, keeping in mind the increasing inter-connectedness the world is moving towards.

It is also not something that a retail investor can DIY. It is important to reach out to a trusted financial advisor who can help you sift through and find these opportunities. For our clients, who have anywhere between 10-25 years left for retirement, we recommend at least 10-20% of their investment portfolio should be invested abroad, both to take advantage of global investment opportunities as well as act as a hedge during volatile times.

Going on international holidays or spending on international products – a good part of your expenses goes towards international companies. Then, why haven’t you invested a decent part of your inve/stments in them yet?

Finwise is a personal finance solutions firm that helps both residents and NRIs plan for their financial goals, follow their passions and achieve financial independence. For consultations, please reach us at getfinwise@finwise.in or +91 9870702277/9820818007.

Image by stokpic from Pixabay

Why being a diligent saver may be making you a bad investor

Why being a diligent saver may be making you a bad investor

“Saving is a great habit, but without investing and tracking, it just sleeps” – Manoj Arora

In general, we are aggressive savers and “keeping something aside for a rainy day” comes to us more naturally than most (probably because we live in a country that is used to quite a bit of excess rain! 😊). We are people who save because we are taught to save. For most of us, our earlier generation (or the one before that) has gone through tough times bringing their children up and we have seen it. We have lived through times of “scarcity” and this scarcity has automatically built into us the values of both prudence (living within our means) and caution (hesitation to take the risk).

This prudence has held us in good stead and manifests itself in our lives in many ways. Not only do we usually have Plan Bs (ie. jugaads) ready for most important situations (ab kya karein is not something we get stuck at usually), it has also taught us to have a savings habit and spend carefully. Our ability to survive and manage short-term household cash crises is also quite good, purely because there is some savings lying somewhere that turns up to be used in that emergency.

At the same time, this caution has led us to being not-so-good investors. For most of us, our investing experiences are formed by what people around us have done. Hence the moment one has a secure job, “ghar kareedna hai” becomes the goal. For our earlier generation, investing a large part of their savings in gold was common since “bachchon ki shaadi mein dena hai”.

The values of caution have also been built into us because of past experiences that we may have had or seen. Someone in the family losing all their money because “usne share-market mein gawah diya” can be a very tough experience for a young adult and can form the basis for his or her life-long investing thinking process.

As financial planners, we commonly see large parts of client savings parked in illiquid assets such as gold or real estate. Most clients we get usually have significant holdings in these asset classes, to the extent of being too dependent on the performance of these asset classes to secure their financial futures. What such strategies also end up risking is that while we spend our lives building “assets”, we don’t necessarily have enough wealth when the time comes, and corrective actions in such situations, unless taken in time, also can prove costly.

It is only recently that people are getting more comfortable with financial assets such as mutual funds, and stocks. Even today, personal finance and investing isn’t taught to kids right from school to graduate programs. It is ironical sometimes to see senior professionals, directors and vice-presidents in large companies, managing company balance-sheets and P&Ls, but struggling at home to have a clear plan that will help them secure their long-term goals.

The fundamental issue with not knowing the basics of investing means 2 things. One, you are dependent on the mercies of whichever “salesperson” you meet (whether from a bank/NBFC, a newspaper ad or a well-wisher friend/relative) to take your investing decisions. Two, even more importantly, you are dependent on the vagaries of luck and time to determine whether you have made the right choice or not.

So, what can we do about it? While Saving is about controlling your expenses to keep aside something for the future, Investing is about making sure it is enough when the time comes. This requires the layman to have some rudimentary knowledge about various financial assets, the return they can generate as well as the risks they entail over various time horizons. Importantly, it also requires us to recognize the corrosive power of inflation on our savings and the ability to assess which investments can build wealth over the long term and which erode it.

Investing is primarily about understanding risk and putting your money to work when and where it favours you. It is not something alien to us since we generally take risks in other domains all the time. In today’s times, we cannot remain ignorant about the basics of investing especially when it does seem that the future of wealth creation lies more in financial assets like equity, mutual funds and bonds, rather than conventional old-time favourites such as real estate and gold. Start your learning and investing journey today. If required, reach out to a good financial planner, just make sure that their interests are aligned to yours.

Finwise is a personal finance solutions firm that helps individuals and families plan for their financial goals, follow their passions and achieve financial independence. For consultations, please reach us at getfinwise@finwise.in or +91 9870702277/9820818007.

Image credit: Mohamed Hassan, Pixabay.com

Lets talk money, honey!

Lets talk money, honey!

To know a person fully, it is important to know their attitudes towards money. This is a critical step towards being truly ready for your happily-ever-after story.

Read this article written by me in my monthly column on Moneycontrol.com by clicking the below link.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/personal-finance/viewpoint-lets-talk-money-honey-importance-of-discussing-finances-in-a-marriage-3674541.html

Dont just plan to invest, Invest to a Plan

Dont just plan to invest, Invest to a Plan

“If you don’t know where you are going, you will probably end up somewhere else” – Laurence J. Peter

There are two reasons why people don’t achieve financial independence, despite being able to. I have earlier written about one reason, which is the importance of “understanding (as against underestimating) the long-term”. Today, let us talk about another, which I have termed (a bit simplistically) as “lack of direction”. Lack of direction here pertains to 2 important aspects of our personal financial “kundli”, which is unique to each one of us.

While it is good to enjoy the journey, its important to know where you are going!

The first is about knowing how good (or bad) is our financial situation with respect to the quality of life that we are leading currently. As a people, we are savers, and most people we meet usually show fair diligence in terms of managing their personal “fiscal” situation. A few times though, we do come across clients who need help in managing their “personal budgets”. Where this goes awry usually is in terms of either having excessive debt, especially of the wrong kind (to fuel a lifestyle which threatens to become unsustainable) or being prone to impulse big-ticket purchases – either for unplanned holidays or gifts or expensive goods to add to their home.

Such situations are relatively simpler to address, since all it requires is enabling people to “allocate” their incomes to different “wallets” and to have the discipline to do this consistently, month after month. There are easy tools that do this such as maintaining separate accounts for incomes and expenses, using pre-set sweep-outs to ensure regularity, maintaining the savings in a not-so-accessible demat account, and having a monthly income-vs-expenses check.

The second aspect is about how well are we preparing to face our future financial needs. While most people have a handle on their present financial situation, when it comes to knowing how prepared they are for their future, most are fairly unprepared. Here, what’s interesting to note is that while we are good savers, we aren’t necessarily good investors. This could be because our investing decisions are usually ad-hoc, driven by what friends and acquaintances tell us or to meet our aspirations.

Quite a few clients we meet don’t necessarily know what they are investing for (except that it seems to be a “good” avenue for “returns”) and what is the “outcome” that they desire from this investment. A key “minimum qualification” to become a good investor is to know what one’s financial goals are, which part of one’s investment portfolio addresses which goal, and with what compatibility.

An easy tool for this is what is simply called a “personal financial plan” which maps your savings and future investments to your goals, and also recommends the best investments to achieve the goals in the most effective and optimum-risk manner. A good financial plan ensures the right mix of asset classes to provide both liquidity as well as stability, the right priorities in terms of goal-funding and the right amount of risk taken to generate the best return, depending on the time-frame of the investment and the risk-profile of the investor.

Achieving financial freedom (or even getting on the road to it with an even chance of getting there) requires you to know what your future financial goals are, and put in place a good plan to fund them from your savings today, thereby giving you the peace of mind that you are not compromising your tomorrow. A good financial planner, whose interests are aligned to yours, can help you put this together for a reasonable fee, while taking the load off you entirely in terms of monitoring and course-correcting, allowing you to live your life fully in the present.

Finwise is a personal finance solutions firm that helps individuals and families plan for their financial goals, follow their passions and achieve financial independence. For consultations, please reach us at getfinwise@finwise.in or +91 9870702277/9820818007.

Image credit: Kdsphotos from Pixabay

Why celebrate Women’s Day?

Why celebrate Women’s Day?

I am one of those people who has always frowned upon Women’s Day.  I have always wondered why make so much of a fuss on Women’s Day, what is the significance of this celebration? I am a recent convert to the celebrations. Let me give you a bit of a back ground to this.

My choices in life have not always been conventional. Back in the 90s, my first job was in sales in the lovely city of Bangalore.  My family was shocked at my choice and my friends found it weird that I would consider taking up the job and dismissed it saying, I would realise it was a folly and quit in few months. Well, as it turned out, no such thing happened, I enjoyed my work and made some great friends.  I was the only woman in sales in entire south India, but that did not make things difficult for me because I fitted in with ease.  It may have helped that I grew up with 2 brothers but then again, I had always studied in an all-girls school and college.  Whatever the reason, I got busy with work and lost touch with most of my women friends from school/college.

My women gangs!

I made very good friends at work and all were men. I could easily sip cutting-chai while they took countless smoke breaks and soon both they and I forgot whatever gender differences existed. Work was such that I had no social life outside of it.  I met my partner in crime, in my first job and he was absolutely fine with me hanging out with my friends who were all men. This actually gave me wings because I did not have to worry about how my parents would be answerable to xyz uncle and aunt.  I continued to thrive in sales and moved to Mumbai after marriage.  Again, I was one of two women in sales in a telecom company. Initially I was taken aback by the language used,  addressing each other with BCs and MCs and while all the gaalis was something I had never seen before, there was no special consideration for language used in front of me. Soon I got used to it. I competed, fought and made friends who still stand me in good stead.

At the end of a corporate career spanning 16 years, all my friends were male and my only female interactions outside the family was with their spouses. They even made fun of me saying I would not know how to interact with women and make engaging conversations to save my life. I believed so too, and was blissfully happy with very few women as friends. When I finally gave up my job to start something on my own, my interactions were limited to the families of my friends over the years and soon I was part of the women’s group where I enjoy the company of the wives while my husband talked shop with my ex-collegues who are now more his friends than mine. 

The women in my family!

That’s when also something magical happened, I was suddenly exposed to moms of my children’s classmates, all thanks to Whatsapp.  There has been no looking back ever since, I have had such a wonderful experience interacting with women. I have not come across any one back-biting or any negativity in the last few years. On the contrary I see us celebrate the victories of everyone, recognise that each of us have a different challenge and support and motivate each other.

What started with just spouses of ex-colleagues and school moms has now mushroomed into so many separate sets of friends – the fitness training group, the financial planning fraternity, I am now back in touch with my college friends. Life would not have been so joyous and secure if it weren’t for you.  I now know how special these friendships are and recognise that this is an absolute necessity to keep my sanity and keep looking ahead.

A big thank you to all you women who have included me in your lives and accepted me for what I am. If camaraderie, unconditional acceptance, lack of envy and genuine warmth doesn’t deserve to be celebrated, then I don’t know what is worthy of a celebration. Cheers to many more years of togetherness and celebrations!

The Finwise Woman series – In celebration of International Women’s Day – 8

The Finwise Woman series – In celebration of International Women’s Day – 8

Our final Finwise Woman is Mrunali Majmudar Sathe, a successful corporate executive, someone who has worked at senior levels in the corporate world as well as has successfully run her own company. For her, money has always been a means to an end, towards achieving her ambitions and desires for her and her family.

Mrunali says,

“As a working woman I have always been financially independent, driving many of our financial decisions of key investments like house and big expenses as well. But as the kids grew up and I took a year off on sabbatical, it struck me that one day I may not be able to earn and the burden will fall on my husband alone or on our meagre savings.

Thats when I realised I needed a personal financial advisor. Enter, Prathiba. I have ever been so grateful that she came into my life. I can say that today my financial future is absolutely secure thanks to her meticulous planning and coaching. All I do is follow her. I can now even think of expensive college education for my kids which I had all but given up on.

In a city like Mumbai if both partners don’t think and act alike to influence their financial status, it is difficult to thrive. Thanks to Finwise, I am wiser and in charge of my and my family’s financial future.”

We hope you enjoyed reading the stories of how these women took charge of their financial lives and went about building financial security and independence as a bulwark for their futures. It is never too late to begin and we urge all women to begin their journey towards becoming “finwise” today!

#finwisewoman # financialindependence #womensday

Finwise is a personal finance solutions firm that helps successful women gain financial and emotional security by helping them plan for their financial goals and achieve financial independence. For consultations, please reach me at prathiba.girish@finwise.in or +91 9870702277.